U.S. Patent office cancels Redskins trademark registration

neddybee.blogspot.com/2005/04/redskins-and-war-paint.html?_sm_au_=iVVkt675N5jqr4pL


Red Was the Color of War


William "Lone Star" Dietz, whose mother was a full blooded Sioux Indian. Dietz was the first coach of the Redskins football team, and it was in his honor that the team was named "Redskins". He brought a number of Indian players with him to the team and they wore war paint and Indian bonnets at games.  Most people assume that the word described the natural skin color of the North American Indians. However, there exists documentation that the name "redskin" was conferred upon the native inhabitants by the English Colonists because of the red body paint they wore in battle. Because the 1699 quotation would certainly be referring to Indian warriors, this seems to be the most likely explanation of the origin of "redskin"..

Um, how about that's their job? They control, as they have for centuries, the regulation of intellectual property. The USPTO and it's court (TTAP, I believe) are responsible for granting patents, trademarks, and copyrights, hearing cases against such grants, and ruling on disputes. The court heard a case brought before it and made a ruling. Whether you or I agrees with the ruling is irrelevant; they ruled according to the facts brought before them. This is the way it's been since the founding of this country.

So because I'm not in the lets just back down and give in so they shut up crowd then I'm a child and immature? LOL, let me tell you something. You don't know me, but I can tell you I've probably done more to serve my country in a day then you probably have in your entire life. Just because I don't get butthurt over every little thing like the libtards do in this country doesn't mean I lack maturity. I've probably have put up with a hell of alot more crap than you could possibly imagine, but at some point where do you draw the line, grow a backbone and take a stand because in this country I just don't see it on too many occasions.

I've heard both sides of the debate and everything I've heard, the majority view the Redskins name isn't racist, in fact I completely agree with Synder/Allen in what this teams name represents. I'm not saying that because I'm a fan. I also think that Snyder being the owner should call his team whatever he sees fit within reason and if people don't like it, hey don't buy tickets, don't buy merchandise, don't cheer for them. I'm not asking anyone to be fans. In fact I've talked to a ton of people who aren't even fans of the Redskins and they don't care about the name one way or the other, but feel this political pressure to change the name is complete BS. All I'm asking is don't take away from me the only pro football team I've ever grown up and loved over my 38 years (not 12 you prick) of living. I don't see how I can root for them if they cave in. It would be essentially forcing me to root for another team. That is my opinion. If your opinion is to cave in and give the other side whatever it wants, you are entitled to that opinion just like I'm entitled to be disappointed in it because to me it doesn't show backbone, it shows cowardice, but if that is how you roll, so be it I guess.

Snyder should be allowed to run his business as he sees fit. If he wanted to change the name because he thought it could be better for his team overall, I may not agree with it, but I could be more understanding and respectful of that. But to change the name because of some political BS, not a chance I respect that.

Yes I do feel that our country is going through a wussification process because our government oversteps it's bounds every chance it gets and they do it in our face and we just let them do it. The small minority constantly pushes around the majority and the majority just lets them do it. Our country is so apathetic it is sickening. If you don't see that then I don't know what more I can say to you and this issue is just a fraction of an example of how far gone this country has become. This team has had it's name for almost a hundred years and now we have a problem with it? Some of us have been fans for almost forty years or more and yet some little group of people start screaming and we are already willing to cave in? That's sad.

So if I thought your real name was offensive to me and I screamed loud enough and long enough and demanded you change it to make me feel better would you do it? I hope the answer would be F U because that would be my answer to you if you did the same to me.

Yes there are times if you say and do something that is really offensive and you know your wrong to be the big person, apologize and move on, but if you run into someone who is always offended no matter what you say or do than there comes a point in time where you have to put your foot down and say enough is enough. Because then the problem isn't you, it's that person. I feel even if we change the name of our team, it won't be enough, they will move on to another Indian named team and go after them too. They'll do it until no team is named after an indian. Maybe that's what they want. No teams can be named after Indians and we should stricken every reference that has anything to do with Indians. Maybe we should say you are no longer a native american, you are just an american. Maybe then they won't be so butthurt anymore. Probably not, but we can hope right?

This also has nothing to do with either political party because I can't stand either of them and think they are both as corrupt as hell. So if people are thinking I'm some Republican nuthugger because the Democrats are the ones demanding the name changed then they are in for a rude awakening.

There's a lot of ignorance here about the USPTO. My dad was a patent attorney for 50 years and he had insights to what does and doesn't happen there. Of all government agencies, it's one of the least political/partisan ones around.

Near as I can tell, there were only a couple of hundred actual cowboys, the concept only lasted for a decade or so, and they spent most of their time either driving cattle or pissing away their pay. It was rare when they had to deal with Indians, and it would have been in the context of protecting their herd.

This summarizes my point of view - much ado about nothing. What's your take on the whole issue PC? There's no one on this board whose opinion I respect more than you and I've noticed you haven't posted anything about it. The one thing I do know is I think I'm going to have to stop looking at Twitter because I have never seen so many ignorant comments in my life and I'm amazed at some of these people simply jumping on the band wagon against the Redskins name

Here's something that boggles the mind a little in all of this. We have the President of the United States, Senators, prominent media members and outlets, and god knows who else riding their high horse, pressuring, cajoling, lobbying for a name change because a certain faction of people are purportedly offended. You'd think an NFL franchise had actually thrown Native Americans onto the reservations. So here's the lesson in lack of intellectual seriousness by even our most esteemed and accomplished fellow citizens. Right next to the White House there's a statue. It's of a guy name William Tecumseh (trust me, this is ironic) Sherman. He's mostly know because he burnt the Falcons home city to the ground 150 years ago, but that's only one part of his legacy. The other part--the even more sinister part--is that W.T. Sherman, with his old buddy Phil Sheridan, conceived of and perpetrated what amounts to a genocide of the Plains Indians in the 1870's and 80's. Here's a quote from good old WTS: "We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women and children." Now, call me crazy, but if we're serious about not demeaning Native Americans (which we should be), perhaps the actual embodiments of the Plains Indians genocide should be the target of PR campaigns, not some silly effing mascot. Maybe we should worry less about some stupid name for an NFL team and more about honoring the engineers of actual genocide. No, but that would actually take intellectual rigor. It's much easier to have Obama and Bob Costas tell us what to think.

Incidentally, I think the name should be changed. I think a lot of people make great arguments why it should be changed, some on this board. But I really feel like many of those who are advocating for it are completely full of bullfeathers. I'm constantly confronted by people who say things like, "Well, it's obviously racist." Is it? "It's just like hurling the [most evil racial epithet] against African Americans." Do tell. This firestorm is a product of interest groups, a willing media, and unserious politicians. And in the end, sadly, they'll win. So best to get on with it and change the name.

The Washington Ameriskins!

(High Five)

Riggo, you are rockin some knowledge and I feel the exact same as you 1970 and others, keep the Name, logo, and go all Al Davis.

While I am not a fan of changing the name, and think this is all PC BS to an extreme...as there are certainly issues revolving around the Native American community that I would think would be of more concern to Native Americans as well as our esteemed Executive and Congressional branches of government. I mean, we are talking about a name of a sports team here....not life or death issues for most.

I wear my Redskin shirts, hardhat, etc....around all the time. The only comments I have heard during the past few days since the ruling have been supportive of maintaining the name...probably because many Americans are very tired of being told how to think by the mainstream media, and Washington DC. Then....if my thought patterns do not mesh with the agenda being pushed, I am now labeled....racist, bigot, homophobe, sexist, etc.

That said...I really think that the team's name will ultimately change. The first I heard of a name issue was back in the 80s...and it really gained no traction. This lasted until a couple of years ago...and now aided in large part by social media, and major news organizations getting behind the "racism" of the name...I think it is only a matter of time until Snyder is forced to change the name. Either through peer pressure via the NFL owners, the courts, or just public opinion outside of Redskin Nation. Just the other day, a friend of mine in Washington state sent me this link:

www.komonews.com/radio/No-more-Redskins-in-one-local-sports-section-263843061.html

While I will be saddened, and angered, that the team's name changes I would not hold that grudge against the team nor Snyder. Heck, being the businessman he is, he is probably already prepared with another name. Nevertheless, I will still support the team in DC that I have supported since '72. And I will still wear my Redskin attire.

Hahaha. OK, now that's funny.

But the most natural way to perceive the name is to hear the literal word. It's a word that describes a group of people by the basest possible common denominator, their skin color, and that is terribly dehumanizing way to describe a group. Whether redskins has the same historical usage as other more common slurs is completely irrelevant, because there's no way to not have the name be a description of people's skin color. Directly describing people by their physical features is the stuff of racists and other bullies. It's just like calling the overweight kid "Fatty" or the kid with glasses "Four eyes". Now when the target of your bullying is an entire group of millions of people, well, then you've crossed the thin line to racism.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with the underlying premise. Yes, being literal, the word redskin can be taken to refer to the natural pigment color of native americans. However, the origin of the word had more to do with the skin being dyed a red pigment for ceremonial purposes or possibly as 'war paint'. It probably took on a more generic meaning over time, but from what I read, the word was never really that widely used. Sure, there are examples of its use in negative ways, even today in certain areas near tribes by a few idiots or 'bullies' (to use your term). Just because a few a-holes decide to try to use a word in a negative way shouldn't make the word off limits - why so easily concede something to losers such as those. Those using it in such a manner should simply be called out for their ignorance and poor behavior to fellow Americans. I disagree that it's irrelevant if the word has not been historically used as a slur or that it can be likened to words such as fatty and four-eyes. I believe it's a noun of certain groups of Native Americans, not a indictment on their skin color. I would even go as far as to say the word really has nothing to do with today's Native Americans, but more so their ancestors from the 18th century and earlier, although I admit I really have no information on which tribes carry-on the specific traditions from that far back. I'm not native american, but we all can think rationally and see things from different perspectives. Like I said, there are many Native Americans who don't view this as a slur, and thus why I said its all in how people choose to perceive it.

My larger point is that its not the place of Costa's, Reid's, King's, ESPNs, Washington Posts, etc of the world to lecture us, the NFL, and the team on this. I even question that all of them are doing it to simply defend Native Americans; or if they feel that they are, I think its out of somekind of misplaced good intentions. The negative press is nothing more than trumped-up charges aimed primarily at Dan Snyder, but is impacting the Redskins team, which to me includes the generations of the fanbase; a fanbase made up of the full spectrum of races and nationalities. Unfortunately, they seem to think the fight is only against Dan Snyder the Jewish 'white' devil.

The most recent US census form asked about race, and the first two selections are white and black. Obviously the simple act of referring to people by color of skin is not inherently "the stuff of racists and other bullies". Sometimes it is just a good and convenient descriptor.

Riggo - I hear what you're saying about the warpaint and in general the etymology of redskins, but I just don't think the rest of society cares. Once the idea that our team's name is racist is brought up to people, they'll take a second and think about the name. Then it's all over, because red skins just sounds blatantly racist and our society today frowns on blatant racism.

I also don't think this is about a few select media members, I think it is more indicative of the changing ways in which our society feels about race-related language. The name change is as inevitable as racial integration or the death of audio cassettes. I just hope that the team I have loved my whole life does the right thing and takes control of this situation and changes the name on their own.